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Originally Posted by trickypickle
1) If oil was the only reason for the US going into Iraq then those Americans are dumber than even the ultra-paranoid Cool thinks they are. Because so far the US is still paying top dollar for oil, and no free oil is as yet coming out of Iraq.
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Tricky, First, I am slightly offended that you're 'name-calling' me. :x
But then, being 'cool', i don't let these things bother me. 8)
I have to rebutt your argument here. Now, just because the US is paying more now that they have gone into IRAQ does not mean that their reason for going in is not for oil. They just miscalculated the difficulties involved in conquering a country. Bush and friends probably thought it would be an 'in and out' thing and voila, got more oil secured. IT probably serves them right and hopefully they learn from this experience but then again, Americans are quick to change history, so, never ever learn from their mistakes.
Plus, I wouldn't call $3/gallon top dollars (at the pump). All around the world, people are paying like 10-20 times to fill up their cars (if you take into consideration earnings/oil prices). In my country, we pay RM 2/liter, or about RM 10 per gallon.
So, let's do some basic calculations:
In My Country: RM 10 / gallon. A fresh graduate in IT could probably earn about RM 2000/month.
In USA: US$3 / gallon. A fresh graduate in IT would probably earn $3500/month (after tax).
Plus, My country subsidises oil prices. Most of our neighboring countries pay much, much more.
Here's my question, why is it that only Americans think that the war in iraq is not about oil?? Do you think anyone outside of US believed for ONE second that Saddam was a threat??? It's only in the USA where you're sheltered and bombarded with your media that you have not a clue even though your own government is lying outright. By the way, I had the same conversation with my best friend (an american btw so you know i am not against or hate americans), and he was also convinced that IRAQ had weapons of mass destruction just before the war (because of the 24 hour media promoting of the idea), and when he visited my country and had access to other media like british's bbc news, he only then saw the errors and how the american media played cheer leader to bush's agenda. Let me ask you a personal question, have you ever travelled outside of the USA for a long period??
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2) See my above post RE: Chavez, Evo and Fidel. The U.S. BETTER pay attention.
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HA! looks like anyone that does not play puppet to the US government are then 'labeled'. Please look up the dictionary and find out what communism means before calling everyone so. I believe Venezuela is doing better now then when they played puppet to the USA.
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3) Cool. As I have rebutted in several other posts your solution is not yet viable. You cannot provide enough power to a household using solar panels, and you certainly would not have enough left over to charge a car. Your example in California is clearly lacking in detail. Remember, an appliance like your clothes dryer runs at about 3,000 watts. That means you'd need about 60 square meters of solar panel to function. Even if the new 30% prototype panels get past their grid conversion problem (which they have not, they still produce little more than conventional panels) and actually provide a total of 15% conversion you are STILL looking at 20 square meters for a single appliance. Plus the problem of no supply at night or during cloudy weather, giving rise to the problem of battery storage (extremely expensive and space consuming) plus the question of costs (even if it were mass produced it will still never be dirt cheap) and who shoulders those costs. Now if more people want to put panels on their houses then more power to them, but at best it will reduce their monthly bills (somewhat, but remember you have to measure your savings against the money you put out to install and maintain the hardware) and in turn reduce the amt. of fossil feul burned.
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You clearly have some basic knowledge of solar power. I won't dispute what you say, but your calculations do not add up.
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Remember, an appliance like your clothes dryer runs at about 3,000 watts. That means you'd need about 60 square meters of solar panel to function.
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True, but you don't run your washing machine 24 hour do you? You need to adjust your usage to 'total / month' or 'total / year'. Unless, of course you turn on every switch in your house 24 hours/day.
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Plus the problem of no supply at night or during cloudy weather, giving rise to the problem of battery storage (extremely expensive and space consuming) plus the question of costs (even if it were mass produced it will still never be dirt cheap) and who shoulders those costs.
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That's why i said it must be a government policy to 'force electricity companies to buy energy from solar homes during day time'. In fact, many states or cities in the USA already have such policies. This option, that is available to many Americans now is called "net metering", where electricity derived from renewable energy such as solar, can be sold back to the utility- any excess electricity produced by the homeowner that is not used can be sold to the utility company on the grid. In addition, many customers will soon have the choice of receiving electricity from their utility that was produced from a non-polluting source (such as solar) by paying a slightly higher price for the clean power. This is called "Green Pricing". Home solar systems are now even being offered by utilities themselves- giving the customer the option of having their own solar photovoltaic system or solar water heater installed on their home.
Basically you pay the difference at the end of the month or year. In the example of a real home below, you'll see that a normal house can be built so that you can generate 100% or more of your own needs. You can probably google around and find more examples of houses that already produce what they need.
Another choice people have available to them is a "wireless living" lifestyle, where they use solar energy to live completely independent in their homes and do not have to rely on the electric grid for power at all.
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Now if more people want to put panels on their houses then more power to them, but at best it will reduce their monthly bills (somewhat, but remember you have to measure your savings against the money you put out to install and maintain the hardware)
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Sure, at this point it's quite expensive. That's why again, i said, the most crucial thing is for the government to make it their priority to use solar which will in turn create lots of demand, and of course the trillions of dollars spent every year digging out oil can be used to subsidize solar panels or fund research into new solar cells or cheaper productions. The actual ingredients that go into making a normal solar cell is dirt cheap, so, with demand, we'll be paying cents on the dollar. USA is spending 8 billion dollars / month in iraq now, and have cost the death and suffering of millions of people, all so that it can secure oil. Now, spend $8 billion / month on subsidizing houses for solar energy or provide clean water or education to the 3rd world countries would be a far better project, don't you think?
The reason why we don't see anyone talking about solar power homes is political, not scientific. Scientifically, it's already viable to have solar homes providing most if not all of the power needs of a family and maybe enough or extra to charge up a car to go to work. This or course depends on whether you live in a house or an apartment. But in America, where most people or A LOT OF PEOPLE have their own houses, you can literally cut down on like 60-80% of energy from oil.
Here's an example of a solar home's 1998 electricity bill:
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Electrical Power Production and Consumption
Maine is a "annualized net metering state." There are two meters on our house--one measures power "purchased" (in) from Central Maine Power Company and the other meter measures power "sold" (out) to CMP. If we export the same amount as we import, there is no charge, except for a $8/month hookup charge which all electricity customers must pay.
Here are the results for 1998. The monthly PV output reflects the amount of energy harvested by the PV array.
Jan Feb Mar Apr May June Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Totals
PV 218 334 337 405 418 322 467 426 444 392 231 252 4,246
In 448 216 235 135 210 42 113 140 186 224 214 254 2,417
Out 130 216 195 329 299 259 324 305 309 288 167 187 3,008
Net -318 0 -40 194 89 217 211 165 123 64 -47 -67 591
The 4200 watt array generated 4.246 megaWhr of electricity in 1998, even though June and November were particularly cloudy months. We "imported" 2.417 mWhr of power from Central Maine and "exported" 3.008 mWhr to the grid. Therefore in 1998, we generated 591 kWh more than we used.
While the bill has been figured on a monthly basis these past few years, in 2000 the bill became "annualized" - excess production from one month is added to the following month until a final 12-month net is determined. As you can see from these figures, we owed nothing for electricity - just the small monthly hookup charge of $8.00. As part of the new net billing rule, any excess will be given back to the utility at no cost and any deficit will be paid at the retail rate (currently 12 cents/kWh). Here is Maine's Annualized Net Metering Policy page.
Energy profile of March 10, 1996
Many people believe that in cold weather, solar houses suffer - it's just the opposite. The colder it is in the winter, the clearer the sky. Therefore, the panels are more efficient due to the cooler temperatures and the house absorbs heat more readily with the sun at a lower angle. If we don't open a window or lower some of the blinds when the full sun in shinning, the winter temperatures inside the house will rise above 76 degrees.
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The above quote was taken from
www.solarhouse.com. I urge you to read it. I know of course not every home can achieve 100% usage needs, but would cutting down by 60-80% a damn good number? In fact, I am currently designing my own home with solar power and I do know the facts!!
