The answers to some questions about "allah"

[jahrukh]

AOA,
Here is an example story to answer some most questioned questions about ALLAH.

" There was a young man who went overseas to study for quite a long
time.

When he returned, he asked his parents to find him a religious scholar or any expert who could answer his 3 Questions. Finally, his parents were able to find a Muslim scholar.

Young man: Who are you? Can you answer my questions?

Scholar: I am one of Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala )'s slaves and Insha-Allah (God willing), I will be able to answer your questions.

Young man: Are you sure? A lot of Professors and experts were not able
to answer my
questions.

Scholar: I will try my best, with the help of Allah( SubHana Wa Ta`ala).

Young Man: I have 3 questions:

1. Does God exist? If so, show me His shape.

2. What is thaqdir (fate)?

3. If shaitan (Devil) was created from the fire, why at the end he will be thrown to hell that is also created from fire. It certainly will not hurt him at all, since Shaitan (Devil) and the hell were created from fire. Did God not think of it this far?


Suddenly, the Scholar slapped the young man's face very hard. Young Man (feeling pain): Why do you get angry at me?

Scholar: I am not angry. The slap is my answer to your three questions.

Young Man: I really don't understand.

Scholar: How do you feel after I slapped you?

Young Man: Of course, I felt the pain.

Scholar: So do you believe that pain exists?

Young Man: Yes.

Scholar: Show me the shape of the pain!

Young Man: I cannot.

Scholar: That is my first answer. All of us feel God's existence without being able to see His shape... Last night, did you dream that you will be slapped by me?

Young Man: No.

Scholar: Did you ever think that you will get a slap from me, today?

Young Man: No.

Scholar: That is takdir (fate) my second answer........ My hand that I used to slap you, what is it created from?

Young Man: It is created from flesh.

Scholar: How about your face, what is it created from?

Young Man: Flesh.

Scholar: How do you feel after I slapped you?

Young Man: In pain.

Scholar: Thats it. this is my third answer, Even though Shaitan (Devil) and also the hell were created from the fire, if Allah wants, Insha-Allah (God willing), the hell will become a very painful place for Shaitan(Satan or Devil). "

Thanks,
Jahrukh. :P

[shasha5]

U know,u just saved me from plenty of things.I couldn't believe in God though a muslim but about this quote u were completely right.
By the way if u would like 2 mail me or chat with me my yahoo id is cool_dudette_5.
Thanks again 4 what u did.

[cool]

Jahrukh,

It's wonderful how you explain the questions here. However, the logic you used is faulty and it's not only used by Islam to prove god's existense, but is used by all religions.

Let's take a deeper look at your logic:

1. You are saying that just because you can't define the shape of pain, therefore, you do not need to be able to prove the existense of God. Similarly, Christians will use the argument that because you can't prove that you love your mother, you need not prove that God Exist.

Now, the flaw lies in the 'faulty analogy' here. Pain as is 'love' are emotions. Emotions are pre-defined as a state of feeling. It's not a 'real' object or thing. God on the other hand is an 'object' or 'think' or 'being' or 'presence' or whatever you want to call it and it should be provable. And if it's not, then why believe in it?

Because without proving god, you're saying that you should still believe in it, then you can make the argument that you should believe in 'anything' anyone claims because nothing needs to be proven. IT's just a world of chaos then. For example, i can claim that there's a green alien about 6 inches tall who made the world. And if you ask me to prove it, i can just say, because you need not prove 'love' then I need not prove my alien theory.

See the problem there??

2. Fate. You have not proved anything. Just because you were slapped did not mean that you were fated to be slapped. It just happened as many things happened. Why does that have to mean that everything is fated?? If our entire lives are 'fated' then nothing we do would change anything, and therefore, you can't hold anyone responsible for their actions because they did not do anything but did them only by god's hand.

3. This is the same kind of illogic as in number 1. above. Pain is an emotion. Fire is energy. Energy do not 'feel' and if there's such a thing as shaitan and if your definition of shaitan which is made of this energy 'fire', then shaitan would not feel pain as only an organism with a nervous system can define what pain is in the first place.

What really 'pains' me is that so many people buys into false arguments like the one here.

[blazingcow]

i agree with cool that using simplified analogies like that won't help people to see clearer, it will only make things more complicated.

as to define god or to show the shape of god, that is impossible. Yet, i don't see anything wrong in believing in god eventhough one can't really describe it or tell you what it is. If someone tells me that a giant alien made the world, i'll ask him to prove me that. But if he tells me that the world has a creator i'll believe him because whatever exists is the result of something else. If we admit the fact that there ever was a beginning, we will simply accept that everything was created by something. What is was we can't say, but there must have been something. that's all one need to knows if he/she wants to believe in god. I don't take any shit about god interacting on our current world or whatever. but i belive there is a creator, or rather a thing that created the world as we know it.

fate as a result of god's will is also something i don't really believe in. But there are things that i believe are bound to happen, predictible. The study of animals make you realise that there are reasons to each of their behaviour and again each action is the consequence of a cause. Birds are migrating in winter because they can't take the coldness anymore.

The same way we can draw big lines for the behaviour of a mass of people in a certain context. That's what is called psychology of masses and it's not an accurate science.. but it's somehow pretty good already. That's harry seldon's job and how he analysed the fall of the empire in asimov's foundation. ok- that is fiction- but this science really exist and whilem reich is one of these scientist, he made a brilliant work on how the way events turned out to be in germany between 1930 and 1945 were bound to happen.

I don't wanna talk about the last argument on satan because i can't believe in all these stories. i'll agree with cool.. does he even feel pain if he's only made of fire. I'll ask for an autopsy here :)

[cool]

Hey Blazingcow,

So, you too read asimov!! I am a big avid fan of his and have read i think all his books (the fiction ones that is).

But i don't think i buy into all that 'theory' about how whatever happened in german 'had' to happen. That's a lot of 'hindsight' and 'fitting' your theory to coincide with events you already knew, kinda like all those books published about nostradamus where the author try to interpret his works in the way they want,... it means nothing.

If this so called professor is for real, he would try to prove major events by first using his 'theory' in the only way his theory can be used, ie, the exact same mathematical equations he made, and then predict the future, and then and only then can we say his theory has any kind of legitimacy.

Otherwise, anything that's in hindsight is easy to create, and they may look real if you don't carefully study them.

As for your theory on 'something' created the world, i hope you meant the universe because only that is still up in the air. How Earth was created was pretty obvious. It was matter coagulating after the 'theory' of the big bang. No big 'presence' or 'godlike' thingy created the Earth.

And even if there are forces that 'created' the universe, that does not mean it's anything like anything we read in the bibile, quran, or any other religious books so to live one's lives by believing in all those dogma and then 'forcing' others to believe it and live by it is in any count 'evil'.

[blazingcow]

yeah i was thinking about the universe too. and about the theory of whilelm reich i just simplified too much. he's not the nostradamus kind of crap you know. his work in The Mass Psychology of Fascism rather clears up the fact that the rise of the social-nationalism in germany at that time was not a german problem. through a serie of analysis of the evolution of societies he tries to find out how such nationalism can rise in modern societies. i can't go and detail the work but it's a very interesting book to read. Reich is into psychology if that interests you.

as a matter of fact i said that it's inaccurate and there are flaws in the demonstration but that's because this kind of science is in constant evolution, always debatable, and that is why is cannot be accurate. but it can be close to it. and when you analyse the behviour of masses you definitely cannot include the possible influence of individuals so that's where the main flaws are.

[shasha5]

I caught a sentence in blazingcow's relpy, Everything is created by a creator.
If God has a created the universe & all then who created God?U might say God was created but by what?
:?:

U know it may b a bit soon 4 me 2 learn these but I realy need them.They just pop out of my head.

[cool]

Yes, of course you're right... you can more or less predict in general several futures... for example, it's easy for now to predict that Asia will rise for example, and Europe will dwindle in terms of economy. Even this prediction may not come true if war breaks out!!

But I am still skeptical that there are any kind of 'mathetical' analysis that is anywhere near workable to preduct human future... even if it's quite generalise... that's why you will never see anyone claim it in any mathematical model (like in foundation)... but almost always in terms of 'hindsight' rationalisation.

The fact remains that a few individuals can make sweeping changes, as in the mule. Take a look at America for instance, one moment it's well respected, the next it's goign downhill when ONE person gets elected to the Presidency. For all we know the next president may put everything right again.

Throughout history, we see that ONE or a small group of individual, or a small even here and there will create sweeping changes. You can never predict those.

You can make predictions such as human spreading out to space if there are relative peace on Earth and be 100% accurate but that does not involve any kind of mathematics just broad overview of the road we are already moving down on.

[cool]

Originally Posted by shasha5

I caught a sentence in blazingcow's relpy, Everything is created by a creator.
If God has a created the universe & all then who created God?U might say God was created but by what?
:?:

U know it may b a bit soon 4 me 2 learn these but I realy need them.They just pop out of my head.

It's never too soon to learn how to think critically and you just did!!

I was about to reply to the same exact question that you asked.

You got it right sasha. The argument that everything has to be created therefore the universe has to be created by god has a flaw as well.

The universe could just have been a process in a long line or processes. For example, when a seed fall from a tree and start growing into a tree, did anyone create that tree? Or, did any force create that tree? Nope. the seed itself carried enough info (gene material) to 'grow' or create itself while sucking nutrients from the ground and energy from the sun.

So, the earth was also a process that evolved from energies, and those energies evolved from some other forces already at play, and so on and so forth. But we do not know what force made the universe in the first place and that's why it's a continual process of education and studies and science. IT's never ending and that's the beauty of it.

But religion seems to want to ascribe 'knowledge' to something that we simply dont know by inventing interesting stories. Like god created everything.

This is very simplistic and most people will just take it as is. Because the actual science involved is so much more complicated and the normal person may not understand it. Just explainign evolution itself may be impossible for most ppl to understand.

I rather live 'not knowing' some things and leave it be than to 'pretend to know' something.

[supressedinsanity]

Well so since we dont have the solution to the mystery of the Prim Mover, then whats wrong with people calling it God.

I always felt that Religion is dumbed down version of hard science which allows it to be sold to the people. and theres nothing wrong with that.

See if God sent a messanger to market a Car to a bunch of cavemen he wouldnt be talking about the BHP and anti lock braking and power windows hed just tell them that its the thing by which you move around from place to place.

So I see logic and possibility in the Intelligent creator theory which would suggest that evolution etc are in fact a logical progression on a path set for it.

Sorry if this is shooting off the topic , but just wanted to post my 2 cents..

bye

[shasha5]

Yes ur right Cool.& thanx a lot. :)

[cool]

Originally Posted by supressedinsanity

Well so since we dont have the solution to the mystery of the Prim Mover, then whats wrong with people calling it God.

There is another flaw to this argument. You are 'assuming' that there's a prime mover. What if it's just an endless process with no beginning and no end? Why not just say we don't know... and wait and see? or, take an interest in science and try to find out?

I always felt that Religion is dumbed down version of hard science which allows it to be sold to the people. and theres nothing wrong with that.

Religion is NOT a dumbed down version of science. Religion and science are two completely seperate entities. One is interested in finding out truths about us and our environment and how things work (science), and the other is just interested in 'believing' in falsehoods and fight to keep them alive even though they are proven to be false (religion). There is no co-relation between religion and science. Just as there's no co-relation between 'facts' and 'fiction'.

See if God sent a messanger to market a Car to a bunch of cavemen he wouldnt be talking about the BHP and anti lock braking and power windows hed just tell them that its the thing by which you move around from place to place.

Again, you're assuming that there's a messenger from god. What if there's none? And just a crazy guy claiming to 'be' a messenger from god. Remember, in those days, almost every other person claims to be a prophet and hears directly from god. Do you see a pattern in all your arguments. They are circular which you can't escape. You first made the assumption that there's god and then all your arguments stem from that assumption without even questioning the first assumption.

So I see logic and possibility in the Intelligent creator theory which would suggest that evolution etc are in fact a logical progression on a path set for it.

Again, here you're using the word 'logic' without having an understanding of what logic is. There is 'no' logic to an Intelligent creator. The 'intelligent creator' is at best a 'theory' if you want to call it that. And there's no 'logic' leading to the creation of this theory. There's no facts to start with that 'logically' leads to an 'intelligent creator'. It's a theory that's been made thousands of years ago when people did not understand a lot about their environment.

Now, even if there's an 'intelligent creator', it won't be the Christian one or the Muslim one or any of the ones that we define in any religios text. Because in all religious text, there's definitive scientific proof of their falsehoods. So, why bother with a so-called 'inteligent creator' when we know nothing about it?? why go to wars fighting for what religious people believe in all for nothing??

Sorry if this is shooting off the topic , but just wanted to post my 2 cents..

bye

Everyone's entitled to say anything they want so i am glad you posted your two cents. It'll only open up discussion and we can all learn. That's the different from Religious and Non-Religious people. Religious people do not want others to have their say. Non-Religious ppl wants to allow everyone freedom of speech.

[jahrukh]

Originally Posted by shasha5

U know,u just saved me from plenty of things.I couldn't believe in God though a muslim but about this quote u were completely right.
By the way if u would like 2 mail me or chat with me my yahoo id is cool_dudette_5.
Thanks again 4 what u did.

You are Welcome for any type of help! Thanks. I will add you to my Yahoo ID though! Good Bye!